Author Topic: VBar Vplane  (Read 3785 times)

Offline Charles Smitheman

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VBar Vplane
« on: 31, March 2015, 07:55:35 AM »
Hello Folks,
Whilst much of this new technology would I presume be illegal to compete with,
It is rather amazing I thought. A quite different approach to the radio control link.
It seems to be quite revolutionary for helicopter use.
And no I do not fly helis, I tend to hide behind something at a distance if possible!
www.vstabi.info/en/vplane
Charles

Offline Adrian Mansell

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #1 on: 31, March 2015, 02:54:54 PM »
Very interesting.


I was lamenting with Martin Fardell before Christmas that the scale rules have been changed to allow the use of gyros.  Maybe I'm a luddite, but it does seem a shame.

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #2 on: 31, March 2015, 04:19:12 PM »
If this helps to bring new pilots into our sport due to fewer broken models at the learning stage then it has to be good, but it takes away any point for the majority of model flyers who see taking a model home in one piece as a challenge and a skill mastered by a few.
 
Will computerisation eventually make life pointless?
 
Now there's a thought for a windy and wet afternoon.
 
Ashley
 
 
 

Offline Sam Wragg

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #3 on: 01, April 2015, 11:22:50 AM »
I can understand why the scale fraternity permit use of such equipment due to the tricky nature of the models they build and the flying conditions they sometimes have to fly in at competition level, but I can't understand why someone who flys F3a would want to use such equipment.

What steps are the association taking to prevent such use at competitions when these units can be incorporated into an Rx resulting in no one being any wiser.

Sam

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #4 on: 01, April 2015, 01:27:10 PM »
We fly by FAI rules Sam.
 
Ashley

Online Malcolm Harris

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #5 on: 01, April 2015, 04:39:04 PM »
Sam,

If someone wanted to cheat it would be virtually impossible to detect because unlike say a noise button where the organisers can monitor the Tx throttle output to ensure it doesn't go above a level used in the noise test, the stabilising feature can be turned on and off via say a flight condition. How would you monitor this? Even a visual inspection of the Rx could be overcome by hiding the stabilising receiver inside a case for a non stabilised one. (This is beginning to sound like I know what I'm talking about!)

Gone are the days when a stethoscope could be used to detect a spinning mechanical gyro, we just need to hope that integrity prevails.

Malcolm

Offline Stuart Mellor

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #6 on: 01, April 2015, 04:59:24 PM »
Looking forward to the day when a model is placed on the runway before the start of the comp (for the judges benefit, of course) & then performs a perfect schedule in the box @ 150metres using gps & no input from anyone else - then lands on the spot.
With the exponential nature of electronic development currently, I don't think we will have to wait too long.
Currently though, there would be some benefit from gyros  - but we all know there is much more to flying a good schedule. Stabilising gyros won't help with positioning, placing rolls in the centre of lines, crosswind corrections, constant radii, constant roll speeds, depth perception etc.
Come to think of it - I don't think gyros would be a big advantage at all! GPS positioning feedback undoubtably would though.

 
« Last Edit: 01, April 2015, 05:11:57 PM by Stuart Mellor »

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #7 on: 01, April 2015, 06:24:26 PM »
Ashley


Might it be worthwhile to raise this with the BMFA's FAI rep to make sure that he's aware of this bit of incoming disruption?


Come to think of it, we ought to raise this with the ASRC since this will make gaining an A or B so much easier.  They Multi-Copter A and B gives specific guidance on how the examiner can satisfy themselves that the examinee has the device in the lowest stability mode.  How does one do this with this technology I wonder?  Given that many of the folks I meet, even with A certificates don't seem to understand how to do range checks properly never mind how to set up their failsafe properly what guarantee have we got that pilots will even know what help they are getting?


Oh dear, I sound like a dinosaur!

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #8 on: 01, April 2015, 09:20:09 PM »
We don't need to say any more at this stage as far as F3A is concerned.
 
Ashley

Offline Stuart Mellor

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #9 on: 01, April 2015, 09:58:01 PM »
I think there is fundamental difference between Heli & F3A use for gyros. With helis - the gyro is more to do with safety & crashing. Can't blame the BMFA for allowing an essential saftey device which beginners ought to use.

Not so with F3A, where its more to do with refinement, not safety.

Agree with Ashley though - its a bridge we may need to cross later, not now.
 
« Last Edit: 01, April 2015, 10:00:07 PM by Stuart Mellor »

Offline Nigel Armstrong

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #10 on: 01, April 2015, 10:52:47 PM »
Just out of interest. Has anybody flown an aerobatic type model with a gyro system fitted to it? I fly helis a lot and with a modern flybarless model and a well set up gyro the model is very easy to fly. Not sure what the advantage of a gyro in a well set up plank would be.

Offline Sam Wragg

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #11 on: 01, April 2015, 11:22:57 PM »
We fly by FAI rules Sam.
 
Ashley

That doesn't answer my question Ashley. In all sports there is an element of cheating ie drugs, bribery, fiening injury and the like.

Ive asked this question before some time ago knowing that such equipment was available. It was an honest question and requires an honest answer.

I fully agree with Malcolm in that this sort of technology would be hard to detect, but nevertheless steps must be put in place to prevent such use at local & international level. My membership of the Gbrcaa has ceased but I still hold dear the ethos of F3a and do not want it tainting by cheats

Yours sincerly

Nationals Cd x3, Domestic Comp Cd, Team manager, Fund raiser, Team Member, Ex Member & finally TV Star for the Gbrcaa  ;)

Sam
« Last Edit: 01, April 2015, 11:25:42 PM by Samuel Wragg »

Offline Sam Wragg

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #12 on: 01, April 2015, 11:29:15 PM »
I think there is fundamental difference between Heli & F3A use for gyros. With helis - the gyro is more to do with safety & crashing. Can't blame the BMFA for allowing an essential saftey device which beginners ought to use.

Not so with F3A, where its more to do with refinement, not safety.

Agree with Ashley though - its a bridge we may need to cross later, not now.

Stuart this technology allows use of flybarless technology and has nothing to do with safety. Helis without fly bars are most unstable. Most Helis are now flybarless because of this technology

The Bridge has bin crossed
Sam
« Last Edit: 01, April 2015, 11:33:40 PM by Samuel Wragg »

Offline Richard Sharman

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Re: VBar Vplane
« Reply #13 on: 30, July 2015, 01:46:32 PM »
Stuart asked in April when an R/C plane could take off, do things and land automatically?


 This is exactly what a local University of Southampton student group have done here to win the IEEE student challenge "payload delivery" last month.  They designed and built a 7kg 2m plane which delivers a 1kg payload to a specified location and returns passing specified way points at specified heights all under autonomous control. Admittedly it didn't do a cuban-8 on the way, but there seems no reason in principle why it couldn't.  It's probably technically possible to get a model to fly the F3A schedule now.  Is it a good idea? probably not, but it does raise a question about the future.