Author Topic: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April  (Read 1548 times)

Offline Keith Jackson

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Re: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April
« Reply #15 on: 02, May 2018, 09:20:38 AM »
Hi Stuart,

Firstly I've got to say that your comments and analyses of the schedules flown are invaluable to the members of the association. By commenting and debating what is being judged, everyone will eventually end up with a common and hopefully correct view of what is required. This is so much better than the days where pilots had to continually guess at what is required because no one would say what they thought.

Re Full roll and stall turn manoeuvre, my interpretation is that the whole thing should be centred, according to section 5B.10 of sc4_vol_f3_aerobatics_18, which is why I made the comments in an earlier thread about this manoeuvre being a missed opportunity to bring clarity to the P19 schedule. Clearly the roll element can be made long or short, and the entry exit radii small or large, as long as this does not contravene the smoothness and gracefulness principal (5B.9). Consequently you can imagine that this manoeuvre can be flown with the pull up on centre or otherwise, point is the pull up point is not required to be on centre. If I had time I would make some drawings but I hope the view I expressed is clear enough. I think the fact that it was shown in the ppt with the pull up on centre was a coincidence, which is a bit misleading.

Like I said earlier it would be great to hear other pilots and judges views on this matter and see where we get to

Thanks once again

Keith

Offline Stuart Mellor

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Re: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April
« Reply #16 on: 02, May 2018, 11:22:30 AM »
Hi Keith,
Thank you for the comments. Must say - until I saw Bob Skinner's pp presentation when mugging up for the comp - it was always my understanding that the entire manoeuvre should be centred.

You are probably right though, that the anomaly in Bob's drawing was just coincidence. Also I must have missed any conclusions from the judging seminar on the manoeuvre......

In the end though - they have just made it unnecessarily more difficult for judges. I doubt now whether any judge can now accurately determine the centre of the manoeuvre. So, in the end it will probably make very little difference to a given score......


As to your comments & my being around for a few years, ahem, it always frustrated me that judging was a somewhat secret practice, with no discussion at all. Having started judging, I was determined to change that by promoting discussion.


Also - other than the general rule that all manoeuvres should be centred -their can't be any diagram in existence that can show a centre of this manoeuvre - since it depends on the roll length etc..... That in itself cannot be a good thing.
« Last Edit: 02, May 2018, 03:41:34 PM by Stuart Mellor »

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April
« Reply #17 on: 02, May 2018, 11:39:04 AM »

I have uploaded 5 photographs to the gallery for this competition which were taken before I had to leave. http://www.gbrcaa.org/gallery/index.php?/category/282


If anyone has more photographs that can be uploaded please email them to me.


Ashley

Offline Adrian Mansell

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Re: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April
« Reply #18 on: 02, May 2018, 08:48:52 PM »
I am with Keith on that one, the requirement is for the manouevre to be centered, the pull-up is where the pull-up is.  As in P-19-01, where there is ambiguity but an on-centre element is required, the sporting code will call it out. (In P-19-01, the 1/2 rolls could be positioned before and after the 3/8 loops with only a short line in between without voiding any sporting code requirements - hence the clarification.)


5B-8-11 says of a stall turn "Drift of the model aircraft during the stalled condition must be ignored, provided the model aircraft does not drift outside the manoeuvring zone."  In a strong wind the perfect execution will not be centered.

Offline Stuart Mellor

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Re: National League Competition - Hurley - Sunday 29th April
« Reply #19 on: 02, May 2018, 10:46:49 PM »

Hi Adrian -that's interesting:
If the initial climb was centred on the flag - any 'downwind' drift is  ignored, as you said.


In the case of this manoeuvre -  it will have to be allowed for by the judge, as any drift  affects the overall length of the manoeuvre  - so the judge will have to subtract the drift to determine the centre of the manoeuvre.


So  the pilot has to allow for an unknown quantity & the judge subtracting any drift in the stall.


Either way you cut it, that's not good.