Author Topic: CAA height restriction  (Read 926 times)

Offline Graeme Jones

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CAA height restriction
« on: 07, June 2018, 03:04:39 PM »
https://www.bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2526/UK-Government-announces-increased-regulations-for-drone-pilots


Bearing in mind that we fly at up to twice that limit, how is this going to affect F3A?


(150 metres out at 60 degrees up = 260 metres altitude = 850 feet)


Graeme

Offline Nigel Armstrong

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #1 on: 07, June 2018, 03:12:17 PM »
I would like to know how they are going to enforce this, but share your concerns on the affect on model flying in general. Not just F3A.

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #2 on: 07, June 2018, 05:01:51 PM »
Guys


This issue has been running for the past 2 years.  The BMFA Chief Executive, Dave Phipps, has led the BMFA's input to the CAA and also represented the FAI and Europe Air Sports in discussion with EASA on the draft EASA proposals.  This was substantially successful in that Model Flying was specifically identified as an existing activity with an excellent safety record and should not be impacted by the drone regulations.  Note that as far as EASA is concerned, there is no difference between drones and model aircraft because there was great difficulty in defining each type unambiguously since both can be flown for hire and reward and for sporting or recreational purposes.  You will find the latest BMFA take on this here.  Suffice to say, that it looks like Club sites will continue to be able to operate model aircraft to the heights we currently use i.e for F3A there is no height limit, outside controlled airspace, since the weight is below 7 Kg.

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #3 on: 07, June 2018, 05:08:47 PM »
Thanks Peter

Offline Graeme Jones

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #4 on: 07, June 2018, 08:29:18 PM »
Peter - but this affects all "drones" over 250 grams. We fly "drones", which the OED defines as "a remote-controlled pilotless aircraft or missile". How are we exempt from the height restriction, which comes into effect this July?


Graeme

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #5 on: 07, June 2018, 10:05:28 PM »
Graeme


Did you read the quote from the DfT Minister that identified model aircraft as a pre-existing airspace user and they are looking to draft the law to have as little impact on the sport.  The CAA are certainly on our side and the BMFA/LMA and other users are all on the ball to make sure we get as much freedom to that we enjoy now.  I think the only question mark will be over whether those who fly outside a Club will have the same consideration.

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #6 on: 08, June 2018, 07:47:32 AM »

> .... We fly "drones", which the OED defines as ...

Let's stick with the Dft Minister and never make the mistake, in any conversation, of referring to what we fly as drones ... not ever!

m
« Last Edit: 08, June 2018, 11:00:20 PM by Mike Wood »

Offline Graeme Jones

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #7 on: 08, June 2018, 07:56:06 AM »
Peter - yes, it's quoted in the BMFA news item. The 400 foot limit still takes effect at the end of July though. Are the BMFA going to be able to negotiate an exemption by then? I doubt it.


I realise that this has been the subject of much discussion over the last few years. My original opinion was that it would never happen, since it would be impossible to enforce. Who would police it? What would the sanctions be? I was wrong then, let's hope I'm wrong now, but if I'm not we are all going to need a new hobby.


Couple of other points -


Why 400 feet? I thought the EASA figure was 150 metres (495 feet).


If an exemption can be negotiated it will, as you say, probably be specifically for flying at recognised club sites. Many of those sites are simply too busy for F3A practice so I imagine many, like myself, find a friendly farmer and fly on our own "away from the madding crowd". Will we have to form a club with just one member simply to be included in the exemption?


Not F3A specific, but what about those groups who have flown for decades from sites which are not BMFA affiliated clubs? I know of three such sites in south Wales. Will they be exempt?


Graeme

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #8 on: 08, June 2018, 11:21:53 AM »

Hi All


If you are not clear about the legislation please contact the BMFA who will answer your questions.


There is always a danger answering questions on behalf of. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Ashley


The way I understand it is that we do not need to worry about our F3A activities, but if you find different from the BMFA please let us know..

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #9 on: 08, June 2018, 06:42:49 PM »
This link shows that there are clear distinctions between Model Aircraft,
Larger Unmanned Aircraft and Drones, with more than one category for Drones.

    https://www.caa.co.uk/consumers/unmanned-aircraft-and-drones/

The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) definition is now clearly dated.

We fly Radio Controlled Model Aircraft!

Mike
« Last Edit: 08, June 2018, 06:44:20 PM by Mike Wood »

Offline TomLaird

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #10 on: 12, June 2018, 10:09:37 PM »
Hi,Does anyone have altitude date from a telemetry module to see what height we typically achieve?
(Note that the IMAC comps are each run under a seperate NOTAM)
cheers
Tom

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #11 on: 12, June 2018, 11:29:22 PM »
Hi Tom


I would think that the reason IMAC go for a NOTAM is that their aircraft can be above 7 Kg and are therefore limited to 400 ft unless they have the approval of the competent ATC authority.


I have a 3rd party telemetry product feeding into my JR XG radio.  When it works(!) it shows that if I fly big then I seem to top out at around 1100 ft whereas if I fly to a more normal size of manoeuvre it shows around 900 ft.  The top of the box at 150 mtrs is 850 ft on the 60 deg line.


Peter

Offline Phil Lewis

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #12 on: 13, June 2018, 10:20:40 AM »
Approximately 850 feet from telemetry data (GPS), not lower than 800 and not higher than 1000.

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #13 on: 13, June 2018, 07:01:12 PM »
On this latest info page on the CAA site there is info worth looking at:


https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Unmanned-aircraft/Our-role/Updates-about-drones/


In particular the CAAs repsonse to EASA’s consultation on the regulation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS).

My personal deduction is that the BMFA and other's concerned have been pro active in getting Model Aircraft
separated from drones.

We can do our bit by ensuring we do the same and always refer to what we fly as Model Aircraft.


Mike

Offline Graeme Jones

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Re: CAA height restriction
« Reply #14 on: 15, June 2018, 06:04:32 PM »
Seems I need to apologise on this one! I should have done more research before commenting. I have now found the original Government Announcement which led to the BMFA news item. It's more detailed than the BMFA item and makes it clear  (I think) that the 400 foot restriction is not intended to affect model aircraft, only "drones" in the sense of rotorcraft with cameras. I wasted a lot of time looking for the announcement on the Hansard Online site, only to find that the House of Commons wasn't sitting on the day in question, 30 May. Instead, the announcement was made as a press release, and can be found here -


http://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-drone-laws-bring-added-protection-for-passengers


Graeme