Author Topic: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK  (Read 248 times)

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« on: 08, January 2019, 01:07:57 AM »

The Government has just published its response to the consultation carried out in mid 2018.  Click on this link to access the report.



Font modified ACH sorry Peter -lost the link


Link repaired - Peter
« Last Edit: 08, January 2019, 09:44:32 AM by Peter Jenkins »

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #1 on: 08, January 2019, 09:45:33 AM »

Offline Ashley Hoyland

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #2 on: 08, January 2019, 11:24:41 AM »

Thank you Peter


Deleted my post for clarity.

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #3 on: 08, January 2019, 12:48:26 PM »
No problem Ashley.  It's a confusing picture at the moment but at least the CAA is on our side in this matter.  Provided they keep their colleagues in the Dept of Transport on the straight and narrow we should be OK - fingers crossed.  However, if you are loan flyer and do not belong to any of the 4 model aircraft associations mentioned in the regulations to date, then you may have a different view!

Offline Alan Wild

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #4 on: 08, January 2019, 01:09:11 PM »
Paragraph 2.28:
3.5Kg??
"Competent Observer"--does this mean no lone flying?!!

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #5 on: 08, January 2019, 02:34:15 PM »
Alan, I think you are referring to the 2nd bullet point at 2.28.  That relates to FPV flying where the exemption relates to aircraft <3.5 Kg.  You are allowed to be pilot in command using FPV provided that you have a competent observer who maintains direct unaided visual contact with the aircraft to warn the pilot in command should there be a danger of flying out of visual range or conflict with other aircraft.  Above 3.5 Kg, if you are flying FPV, the pilot in command has the master Tx and the person flying FPV has the buddy box.  The pilot in command must maintain direct unaided visual contact with the aircraft at all times and will take control of the aircraft if there is a danger they will not be able to do so.  Also provides the usual safeguard of avoiding other aircraft, people, vehicles and property.


Hope that helps.

Offline Alan Wild

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #6 on: 08, January 2019, 02:55:29 PM »
Thanks Peter,I'd thought that those restrictions were to our models, not drones---as they appeared under the heading "Model Aircraft Associations".

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #7 on: 08, January 2019, 04:21:09 PM »
Alan, I'm afraid our models are drones as far as the regulations are concerned!  The reason being that EASA couldn't find a way of differentiating between drones and model aircraft.  Don't forget that FPV is used by fixed wing as well as quad copter type aircraft and you could fly F3A using FPV!

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #8 on: 08, January 2019, 09:57:16 PM »
I believe that we should always strive to maintain that traditional model aircraft and drones are completely and utterly different
in any post or conversation.

By this I mean that the Air Navigation Order (ANO) refers to Small Unmanned Aircraft (SUA) and that model aircraft
and drones fall under that designation. It doesn't mean that traditional model aircraft are drones.

Our permission, from the CAA by being a member of one of the model associations, allows us to continue based on the distinction.

There are very few references to the term"drone" in the official documents . The current permission relies on the term - "3c. the small unmanned aircraft shall not be a rotorcraft with more than one lift generating rotor or propeller".
In the Notes for the Permission it states that for 3c: "Condtion 3(c) means that the small unmanned aircraft
commonly known as quadcopters or multi-rotor drones, cannot be flown above 400 feet in accordance with this permission".

I think the term "drone" has departed from its original meaning for our context and today is synonymous with "a small unmanned aircraft that is a rotorcraft with more than
one lift generating rotor or propeller".

Within the document "Taking Flight: The Future of Drones in the UK Government Response", it would seem that there are some drone
flyers who would like that distinction to not be made, for obvious reasons, however from our point of view, it is the last thing we would
want to promote.



Hi Alan

There are two separate documents from the CAA, one a Permission and the other an Exemption; both refer to flying
in excess of 400 feet.

The Exemption refers to First Person View (FPV i.e. not us for F3A as we know it) and the Permission is what allows us to continue.

Links are here:

    Permission - https://bmfa.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=2643&language=en-GB&PortalId=0&TabId=1506

    Exemption - https://bmfa.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=2644&language=en-GB&PortalId=0&TabId=1506


That's my current understanding, please let me know what you think.

Thanks

Mike

« Last Edit: 08, January 2019, 11:01:16 PM by Mike Wood »

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #9 on: 08, January 2019, 11:44:49 PM »
Mike


Sorry to contradict you but it is EASA who have lumped model aircraft in with drones despite much lobbying from the UK model world.  Apparently, they could not find a way to define a drone and a model aircraft that was fit for purpose.  Regardless of what we might like to think about the distinction as far as officaldom is concerned - we fly drones but as we operate within an approved organisation, the BMFA, we have an exemption to most of the rules with the clarification from the CAA that this excludes rotorcraft with more than one rotor.  Tough if you have a model of a Chinook!


As far as the F3A world is concerned, there is really no change provided that the current CAA exemption is carried over in the forthcoming drone regulations in late 2019.  I'm sure that Heathrow having been shut down this evening for "drones over the runway" there will be tighter control around major airports than even the proposed increased in the consultation response document. 

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #10 on: 09, January 2019, 01:05:28 AM »
Hi Peter

Well ... I think we can do our bit by making the distinction  8)

It is the CAA that has granted the exemption/permission to the ANO with regard to the 400ft limit to us as members of the BMFA.

The ANO which passed into law states that the CAA can grant exemptions / permissions.

We should follow the distinction that the CAA have used and we should promote
the difference between traditional model aircraft and drones in our posts and conversations as without it
we wouldn't have the permission and exemption that have allowed us to continue in our activity of traditional
model flying.

The ANO covers Small Unmanned Aircraft (it doesn't use the term drone).

The permission from the CAA states "... excludes rotor craft with more than one ..." in the notes clarified as "... multi rotor drones ...".

The UK's relationship with EASA isn't certain (if and) when Brexit occurs.

There are drone flyers arguing that there should *not* be a distinction and we are shooting ourselves in the foot
to promote anything that supports that argument.

Mike


p.s. We have wings to provide lift, not rotors  :)
« Last Edit: 12, January 2019, 10:45:05 PM by Mike Wood »

Offline Peter Jenkins

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #11 on: 09, January 2019, 01:10:36 AM »
Mike


The title of the Government's paper is "Taking Flight:  The Future of Drones in the UK - Government Response"


I rest my case!

Offline Mike Wood

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Re: Govt Response to the Future of Drones in the UK
« Reply #12 on: 09, January 2019, 01:20:39 AM »
Your comment makes my point.

We don't want to be included in the Future of Drones, we fly traditional model aircraft, not drones.

If we flew drones we would be limited to 400ft.

The ANO which is law uses the all encompassing term of Small Unmanned Aircraft (SUA).

The paper "Taking Flight" is not law and is looking at drones - things which have multi rotors to produce lift - we have wings and are not drones (in today's common usage)
and we should promote that.

Mike
« Last Edit: 09, January 2019, 01:31:05 AM by Mike Wood »