Author Topic: Economical 2m Plane  (Read 7766 times)

Offline Steve Haywood

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Economical 2m Plane
« on: 29, August 2007, 12:16:18 PM »
Following on from the thread in US Nat
10 for take off.

Offline Keith Jackson

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #1 on: 29, August 2007, 01:47:37 PM »
Hi Steve,

The chap who I met (Mark) who flies the Tojeiro actually uses a ASP 180 on 18 % Nitro and a 20oz tank. This swings an APC 15 x 12 at 9100rpm! (I measured this myself last night). Admittedly he's modded the engine slightly but I think the base engine could probably do nearly as well, which is much better than the original YS140 Fz I used in Poland (1997) 8500rpm on 20% Nitro, which powered my own design 2m model. This engine from Just engines costs £209.99 and powers the model more than adequately. However the new OS200 (not the F1 version, which is in fact no more powerful) retails for £269.99 which I'm pretty sure you could run on 15% nitro and get all the performance you want. It comes with a standard silencer which you could upgrade to a mini pipe later on if you wished.

You should certainly soft mount any large fourstroke and I personally use a Budd Mount in my Astral, availabale for Steve Dunning. I can't remember how much it was but it was well under £100, and is made of the normal rubber isolating ring and the beams from folded sheet metal; i.e. bullet proof.

I would not advocate the petrol route personally but I guess if you already have the engine thwere's no harm in trying.

I think the 2m models certainly do fly better; they are just more stable and easier to fly. I think the combination of the Tojeiro / ASP180 / OS200 makes for an excellent introductory package. All we need now is for Protech to get behind this intiative and sponsor new pilots coming into the GBRCAA with a deal to help them get started...

Best wishes

Keith


Offline Alan Wild

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #2 on: 29, August 2007, 06:58:32 PM »
Steve---there was a thread on RC Universe pattern forum some months ago by Bob Pastorello about the Toj with a (?bigger?around40cc?) petrol engine and I think he seemed quite pleased with it----but I seem to remember that it ended up a bit heavy, and he sold it on.
Worth a look, perhaps?
That forum has a search facility for older topics,I believe.
Alan.

Offline ASTIRMAN

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #3 on: 29, August 2007, 10:53:19 PM »
Keith,

I attended all 3 days of the Nats and had opportunity to chat to a few people. These 2 metre models are a superb spectacle and I feel inclined to be involved in F3A again, if only in a small way. Reading your comments about the Tojeiro, forgive my lack of current knowledge but are you referring to the OS 200 four stroke ?

Colin Fretwell.

Offline Keith Jackson

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #4 on: 30, August 2007, 09:25:13 AM »
Hi Colin,

Yes that would be the OS 200 four stroke, available from Slough models in non F1 form for £269.99 with a silencer! My guess is you could run this on 15% nitro on something like an APC 17 x 12. Its remarkably light ~870g so is lighter than the DZ160 and fits a 120 sized mount.

I take your point about 2m models; they just fly so well in comparison to the lower sizesand I sometimes think when we recommend to beginners to fly say a 110 sized model, we are actually building in difficulty when a simple 2m model mightn't cost much more yet fly much better.

I really hope you take up the F3A reigns again Colin; perhaps see you at the Champs?

Keith

Offline Yoda

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #5 on: 30, August 2007, 01:02:38 PM »
Quote
Would this plane be able to do the advanced schedule, and possibly the Masters schedule?

Easily. It is just a Smaragd copy "designed" by one of the Belgian (I think) team. Will do FAI no probs

Quote
What do you think of a petrol engine in a plane like this?

Go for it. I think it would be a great combo personally.

Quote
Should I soft mount the engine? If so how should I do it?

Not sure if it even needs it. Dads MVVS 160 petrol is ultra smooth. If you were to soft mount it I would make it fairly stiffly soft mounted - Iain Nicol of IAD design would be able to recommend something

Quote
Who would you recommend for a manifold and quiet pipe for a petrol engine?

Yes, again talk to Iain Nicol

Quote
I currently use 4.8v Ni-Mi
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Those people charged with running competitions must treat competitors with respect, equality and inclusiveness. They must act with integrity, transparency and democracy in order to ensure that good sportsmanship, fair play and excellence prevail.

Offline mark

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #6 on: 30, August 2007, 09:34:48 PM »
                 Hi Steve,

                 The tojeiro/asp180 is mine, I would very much reccomend the airframe. Pretty good quality and all the stated
                 settings (cg, control throw) seem to work very well. the motor works pretty well in it, have tried several props
                 and 15x12 apc or graupner 16x12 seems best. If you go for this combo keep to the std elev setup with the
                 bellcrank at the back as opposed to having 2 servos in the tail else weight could become an issue. My motor
                 is a little heavy at 1040g with std exhaust and the engine mount is quite heavy hence total of 5.2 kg but
                 this could be reduced a little. This combo could fly a shedule no problem,and I hope to prove this at some point
                 at a comp in the near future tho its pilot needs to improve somewhat first!!  It also represents a very affordable
                 route to pattern flying. As far as work on the motor goes all I have done is to gas flow the inlet and head, and
                 to ensure that the inlet manifold matches the inlet port ( not even close as std but still ok)

                                                 regards Mark

Offline Steve Haywood

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #7 on: 31, August 2007, 12:23:57 PM »
Thanks to those above who have responded, keep them coming:-

I am definitely going to go for the Airframe -Tojeiro 140.

It seems it is a bit more undecided about using the petrol engine, my current thinking is give it a go. I will mount the engine, pipe, tank etc in such a way as I can do a change to something different if the petrol one does not work as well as expected.

Thanks Yoda! I am about to contact Iain Nicol for suggestions, views and recommendations.

Thanks again,
Steve
10 for take off.

Online Mike Wood

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #8 on: 31, August 2007, 05:27:26 PM »
Steve

You mention a 18x10 G-Sonic which may mean alterations to the standard airframe/undercariage setup to get extra prop
clearance which could mean extra cost. I don't know if it will but it would be worth checking.

Cheers

Mike
The only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire!

Offline Chris Bond

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #9 on: 31, August 2007, 09:34:18 PM »
Some good photos here Steve

http://www.rcflygskola.se/Tojeiro.htm
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Offline mark

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #10 on: 01, September 2007, 06:45:45 PM »

                               You got no chance of an 18 inch prop with that uc. A 16 inch prop can touch the grass on
                               takeoff on our runway quite easily. sorry !
                           
                                           mark

Offline sw74gls

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #11 on: 02, September 2007, 04:36:35 AM »
Hi Steve I have a Protech Tojeiro 140 for sale that I have not flown as I was working a lot this year and never got round to kitting it out, I purchased it from a Fai pilot who never flew the model (Built by ELATION MODELS) and lots of carbon fibre was added to keep it light (wing tubes,tail tube, spats, under carriage) and it is a very nice looking model but I have since bought a Zn line caprise 232, the model is brand new assembled  but not flown, if it is any good email me at sw74gls@aol.com or ring me on 07955890153

Offline Steve Haywood

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #12 on: 30, October 2007, 09:13:10 PM »
Just an update on an Economical Plane (to run not necessarily to build)

As I said some time ago I was contemplating the Tojeiro 140, and putting in my Roto 25, well it's almost complete.

Here are a few photos of the Engine Installation. I had to pack out the mounts from the firewall, I used ply and put in the recommended side thrust. The majority of people I spoke to said I should hard mount the motor - so I have.

More to follow:-
10 for take off.

Offline Steve Haywood

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #13 on: 30, October 2007, 09:19:35 PM »
I had to make a few modifications to get the Rudder / Elevator servos central as I like them. I also had to remove the top half of one former. I replaced this with a piece of light ply, which doubles as a switch(2) support and VoltsSpy(2) support. One for the Radio Battery one for the Ignition battery.
The Rx and Rx Battery are lower down in the huge fuzz.

And there's more:-
10 for take off.

Offline Steve Haywood

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Re: Economical 2m Plane
« Reply #14 on: 30, October 2007, 09:38:14 PM »
There would have been a problem, as it was suggested, with prop clearance. I wanted to stick with my proven setup of the 18" prop, so I needed to increase the height of the U/C. I looked at a few carbon jobs but at £40-£60 I could not justify the expense on this so called Economical plane. So having put my brain into overdrive, a piece of ply was sanded into a double wedge piece which angled the supplied u/c down a bit. The wheels are at a bit of an angle, but I hope this will not matter too much. I have gained an inch of clearance, this should be enough but if it is not I could always try a 17" or 3 bladed prop. As a last resort I could go for a proper longer u/c.

It's almost ready to go, I need to fit the tailplane, and wings making sure they are all at the correct incidences. All servos Rx etc are in except the ignition battery which I am leaving till last to set the final balance point. I have already balanced the plane and it was spot on 175mm back from the leading edge, half way between the manufactures recommended positions.

If I manage to complete the remaining jobs this week it may get it's first flight this weekend!

If anyone would like more info just let me know, just do not ask how much it weighs.:-(
10 for take off.